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You can find previous episodes of “The Stone Chapel Podcast” at Lanier Theological Library.
“The Stone Chapel Podcast” is part of the ChurchLeaders Podcast Network.
This transcript has been edited for clarity and space.
Amy Orr-Ewing
Hello. I’m Dr Amy Orr-Ewing. I’m a theologian based at the University of Aberdeen, where I’m an honorary lecturer in Divinity, and I’m also a Distinguished Scholar at Wheaton College.
David Capes
Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing. Amy, good to see you. Welcome back to the Stone Chapel Podcast.
Amy Orr-Ewing
Thank you so much. What a joy to be with you.
David Capes
It’s great to see you. You may not know, but you were on this podcast before. You were at the Lanier Theological Library and we recorded a session together after a lecture. It was dealing with your book, Mary’s Voice. You did a wonderful job. And we took that audio and we crafted it and turned it into a podcast. So this is your second time even if you didn’t know it!
Amy Orr-Ewing
I certainly remember that evening very fondly.
David Capes
it was a great time there in the East Reading Room of the library. We love doing that after the evening meal. For those who don’t know Amy Orr-Ewing, who is she?
Amy Orr-Ewing
Well, you can probably tell from my accent, first of all that I’m British, and I live just south of Oxford. I did my undergraduate and my doctoral work at the University of Oxford. My research interest was in Dorothy L Sayers, and in particular her apologetic approach and impact. And for the last 25 years, I’ve been involved in public advocacy for the Christian faith. It’s a bit like apologetics. But basically, talking about the Christian faith in a way that people who don’t believe it, find compelling, persuasive, and have the opportunity to ask questions. And I’ve spoken in more than 40 countries and I’ve written a few books. I’m married. My husband is ordained in the Church of England, but he’s not leading a local church anymore. He’s involved as a theologian and in a leadership program as well. And we have three sons, teenagers. Twins and one other.
David Capes
You’re going to be here at the Lanier Theological Library doing a lecture in the fall of 2024. The date of that lecture is September 21st and the focus of that lecture is going to be C.S. Lewis and the problem of pain. Our goal in this podcast is not for you to do the lecture for us, but just to whet the appetite. Foreshadow a little bit of what you’re going to be talking about, because we’ll probably have hundreds of people here for that lecture. We also hope to have thousands of people watching the lecture on our YouTube channel. It will be available live and also to watch at any time later. The problem of pain is a universal problem, right? Tell us a little bit about your lecture and about Lewis’s approach to that problem. He has a book entitled The Problem of Pain.
Amy Orr-Ewing
Yes, there is indeed. One of Lewis’s most well loved books is called The Problem of Pain. I think whoever we are, whether we live in the affluent West, or a more deprived area. Or whether we’ve been a Christians for a long time, or a short time, inevitably, we are going to face the problem of suffering, the question of how God could be loving and this be the world there is. And we’re going to face it on a number of levels. One probably intellectually. How do we reconcile those two big ideas? God exists and is all powerful and actually loves this world. He’s powerful enough to do something about it, and he’s loving enough to do something about it. Why wouldn’t he? Why would there be the kind of suffering that there is in this world? There’s an intellectual question there.
There’s also a personal dimension to this question. Because as we get older, inevitably in life, we’re all going to face difficulty, struggle, suffering, perhaps even trauma. And so it’s a really, really important topic. What Christians of the last few decades have found is that there are a few sources that stand the test of time, and one of those is C.S. Lewis. That is interesting on lots of levels, because this is a man who was mainly living in the 1940s. You think, how could it still be relevant today? But his writing has really stood the test of time, and so in the lecture, we’re going to be looking at his approach. Now, one of the things that’s interesting about his approach, you’ve mentioned. The problem of pain, which is very famous. He also wrote a book called A Grief Observed, and that relates to his own very visceral experience of suffering upon the death of his beloved wife, Joy. And so we’re going to be drawing a bit on that as well, and looking at how Lewis very effectively engages with this question of suffering at an intellectual level, at a personal level.
I’m hoping to have some time as well to consider how he does this on a creative level, through narrative. Because one of the things he does so brilliantly is to write readable, philosophical theology. But he also writes amazing stories. He wrote The Screwtape Letters, which are just absolutely genius, aren’t they? He’s imagined conversations between a junior devil and a senior devil in hell. So, I’m really looking forward to the lecture, delving into the theory side, the intellectual side. How that can actually serve us still today, as well as these two other dimensions, the personal and the narrative. And I may be able as well, to make a few suggestions as to ideas that roll on from Lewis that apply to our current cultural moment. You know, I work in apologetics today, not 20, 30, or 40, years ago. So how what he was beginning to see and argue, might that actually be worked out today in our public discussions of the Christian faith?
David Capes
Many people that I know have given up on the faith because of the problem of suffering. I mean, maybe they see it as an intellectual thing. Or maybe they themselves have experienced a huge trauma, a huge loss, and this grief is just, in a sense, stymied them from having any kind of faith. So this is for Christians as well as for people who aren’t believers because of this, right?
Amy Orr-Ewing
Yes absolutely. This is for Christians who need to be prepared to face this question themselves. I think it’s for Christians who find themselves on the way to the back door of the church, who have believed, have known God, but are really, really questioning and struggling. Maybe for anyone pastoring people in that kind of situation as well. But I also think that the lecture will be and Lewis’s work certainly is relevant for people who are engaging with unbelievers, for whom this is the main reason they don’t believe. If you’re a church pastor and you have evangelistic outreaches or programs, hopefully this will also be a kind of equipping experience for you and those you lead to think deeply about this subject, the problem of pain.
