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You can find previous episodes of “The Stone Chapel Podcast” at Lanier Theological Library.
“The Stone Chapel Podcast” is part of the ChurchLeaders Podcast Network.
This transcript has been edited for clarity and space.
Terry Wildman
(Terry speaks in Ojibwe, then translates) Hello, my friends who share this life together with me. I said that my native name is (Terry speaks in Ojibwe, then translates), which means voice of great thunder with a good medicine spirit. But I’m also known as Terry Wildman.
David Capes
Terry Wildman, great to see you back here on The Stone Chapel Podcast. Thanks for being with us.
Terry Wildman
It’s great to be back here, especially face-to-face.
David Capes
I know last time we were on Zoom, but this time, we get to be together in the same place. You’ve come down to do a talk for SMU Perkins in Houston, but we’re glad that you and Darlene have been able to come and stay with us for a couple of days.
Terry Wildman
It’s great. It’s really beautiful here. We got a wonderful tour, and it really surprised us.
David Capes
In our first podcast together, we talked about the New Testament that you had published in the First Nations Version. Its subtitle is An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament, and it’s a fascinating read. It’s a wonderful project. We’re not going to repeat all of that, because I want to talk about the newest project that you’re involved in, which is to publish Psalms and Proverbs next. It’s a huge chunk of the Old Testament. Is the goal to do the whole Old Testament?
Terry Wildman
We’ll see about that. We’re praying about it. That’s a challenge, but we’ll just keep working on it and see if we get there.
David Capes
Well, I hope you can, because it would be a great gift to the church and to the Academy to have this work available for us. Alright, so Psalms and Proverbs out of all the Old Testament. Why Psalms and Proverbs first?
Terry Wildman
That’s a really good question, because we wondered what we should we do next. InterVarsity Press was very interested in us doing more. We prayed about it. We talked about it among the translation council members from different tribes. I think it came down to Psalms and Proverbs because so many people use Psalms and Proverbs in their daily devotions. They read them every day. I’ve got a native pastor friend who reads [a chapter from] Proverbs every day and several Psalms every day. We just thought it would be a good place to go.
Many of our Native people have songs that are traditional spiritual songs. We have wisdom sayings and wisdom keepers. So, we thought this could be a good connection, to take this ancient wisdom of the Jewish people, and bring it into a native context. To see the places where it overlaps, and where it has a different perspective. And I think that’s working really well.
David Capes
Many of my devotions for years was to read five Psalms a day and then one proverb. And when you do that month by month, you can read through the entire Psalter in one month, and then you read through the entire Book of Proverbs basically. And I think that honestly, if I were in your shoes, that’s what I would be doing. I would do Psalms and Proverbs first. Why don’t you read for us one of the psalms that you did? You talked about Psalm 42 which is a favorite of many people. And in the Christian worship tradition, some have turned parts of that psalm into a song or two along the way. But share that translation with us.
Terry Wildman
I’ll be glad to. We call the Psalms, Sacred Songs. This is Sacred Song 42, First Nation Version, the preliminary translation.
Oh great spirit, like a deer panting for streams of water, my dry and thirsty soul pants for You. My whole being longs to drink deeply of You, for You are the true and living great spirit. When can I go to meet with you face to face? Tears are my only food, as I weep day and night. My
enemies never stop taunting me, saying, where has your great spirit gone? My wounded heart is bleeding as I remember how things used to be. I was the head man dancer, leading a great crowd to Creator’s sacred lodge, staying in step with the drum. The women “lu-lued” and the men whooped and shouted as we danced for joy and sang songs.
Why do I now feel like I’m melting away? Why am I so troubled deep inside? I will put my hope in the most holy One. I will once again, thank him for all he has done, oh giver of life. My heart has fallen to the ground. So I must keep you in my thoughts. I do this from the land of river flowing down- Jordan. From the peaks of sacred mountain- Hermann and humble hill- Mazar. I hear the echoes of your roaring waterfalls as deep calls out to deep. Your surging waves have swept over me again and again.
Each day, Grandfather sends his faithful and true love my way. At night, his songs come to me as my prayer to the giver of life. Oh great spirit, my rock. I ask, why have you forgotten me? Why do I walk a path of gloom and despair, hunted down by my enemies. Their taunts are like bone shattering blows as they echo again and again. Where has this great spirit of yours gone? Why do I still feel like I am melting away? Why am I so troubled deep inside. I will put my hope in the Great Spirit and once again, thank him for all he has done.
David Capes
Wow, that’s a brilliant rendering of that Psalm. Thank you. I don’t know where to start. You know that psalm is considered technically under the lament Psalms. Because it begins with this downward cast, and yet there’s this movement within it. A couple of times it says, yet I will hope in this one. When you read that as a native person and as other native persons read that, what does that do for your soul?
Terry Wildman
Our native people really can relate to lamenting. We have trails of tears. We have great walks where we were removed from our sacred lands, from our traditional sacred places. We were moved to other places by the government against our will, and we were misunderstood. We were mistreated in so many ways. And so, when we read Psalms like this, we relate it to those kinds of experiences, and it brings comfort to us in the same way. We can call out to the Great Spirit, because he understands what we’re going through. We learn through the Psalms and through the Proverbs that the Creator actually sides with the oppressed. And we take it that way, and that’s what gives us a lot of hope.
David Capes
Well, there’s so many wonderful moments in the Psalms. There are things, though, in the Psalms that are hard to translate. There are words sometimes that you come to there are the subscriptions. We call them a “Sacred Song of Asaph, for example. But there’s this word selah that occurs in a number of psalms. But it’s not really understood. The Hebrew specialists can’t tell us what it means exactly. Is it a musical notation? Is it a pause? What is it exactly? So, how did you guys render in the First Nations Version, this wonderful word selah?
Terry Wildman
That’s really interesting, because that was a topic of discussion. How are we going to translate it. What could we relate it to in a native way, other than just saying selah? That wouldn’t have a lot of meaning. One of our translation council members, is Lumbee from North Carolina. Many of the Lumbee people are followers of Jesus, in the Jesus way. He came up with a suggestion of, well, if it’s possibly make it a musical notation or a pause notation at our gatherings. Maybe at a powwow, the Master of Ceremonies might be speaking, and if he says something really good, the drummers will hit the drum, just to emphasize that moment.
David Capes
We sometimes hit a drum to emphasize a moment of comedy. You know, a rim tap. But in the powwow, this is the opportunity to say pay attention. This is something very important!
